Pressure Concern

[vanmc]

I will probably be lynched for writing this post but I wanted to see what all the local fisherman think of all the tournaments and the actual effect they are having on the bass population at Marsh Creek lake. It seems REAL SLOW there this summer.

First off I would like to state that this is in no way a knock at the local fishing clubs that have done so much to make Marsh Creek Lake a better bass fishery. With all they do in my eyes they have every right to have tournaments on the lake. It just seems with all the clubs and tournaments that take place during the warm summer months it raises some concern for the future well being of the lake which we all enjoy so much.

I personally have not done research on mortality rates during summer tournaments. My information is coming from what I have read on other web sites discussing this issue. I have seen some posts on other web sites discussing how holding tournaments during the warm summer months is extremely hard on the bass and that unintentionally a fair number will die after each weigh in. Which normally would not seem excessive but with tournaments seemingly being held every time I go to the lake during the summer ( I fish every Saturday and Sunday that I possibly can) that this would ultimately lead to a huge loss of our bass population over the period of a few years. Below I have included a posting from another site discussing the alarming numbers.

From the eastern Pa Web site

“Let's do some math. MCL /3 tournaments a week for 8 weeks. 30 bass per tournament brought in live-wells to the weigh in. Now factor in 35% delayed-summer mortality. 24x30=720 - 35%(252) 468 bass survive. Do this for 5 years in succession. Since MCL is a Big-bass lake,only bass over 15 inches may be kept. That's 1260 less bass ,15 inches and over swimming around in MCL after 5 years of summer tournaments.”

This scares me about the future of our lake. I think we as a community should step up and figure out a way to collectively ensure the future of the bass population at Marsh Creek. Possibly only the local clubs that sponsor the lake should be aloud to host these tournaments. Possibly all tournaments should be limited to only 2 a month. Or possibly they should be held closer to the fall, when in my eyes the bass fishing is very good but obviously the water temps are a lot lower. Another idea I have seen was to make the tournaments immediate catch an release and for the anglers to photograph their catches in front of a ruler and weights would be determined in inches and not pounds. Maybe the tournaments could be annually spaced out, one year on, one year off. I think competitive fishing is a great thing, so please do not get me wrong. I just want to raise my concern and see what suggestions other anglers in our community have to help the situation. Should we petition the park or Pa Fish and Boat commission to limit the pressure in some way? If my speculations are way off I do apologize, if they are not off then we need to do something to ensure that Marsh Creek is a place that will offer great bass fishing for years to come. I plan on living in the Downingtown area for the rest of my life and the lake is a place where I go on weekends to unwind from the hellish week I seem to have every week at work. I am sure many others look at the lake in the same way.

What do you think?

[cjb]

I'm not anywhere near even being a "good" bass fisherman, but I caught way less fish last year. My trips this year have been averaging two fish an hour, way better than last year. Most of my fish are under 15" which is normal for me but I have been catching at least one over 17" each trip too, which is way better than I did the last two years.

I don't think tournaments are to blame at all. The state limits tournaments on lakes to two per day and if they're survey data showed anything drastic, I'm sure they'd decrease that amount. Fish at MC get hassled a lot less than other larger lakes, here they're not bounced around in a livewell full of water for an hour while the boat jumps over 3 foot waves on the way to weigh in.

There are always tons of people bass fishing on the lake who are not part of any tournament. Most clubs in this area are very small and 10 boats is a large tournament except for the opens. Overall, I think the lake is going through a normal cycle, dependent on things like spawn success, water stability and even snow fall over the winter that supplies ground water.

Yes, I've changed some of my tactics this year, actually upsizing many of the lures I've used in the past. Is that the reason I'm doing better this year? I dunno, but I'm having fun and that's what it's all about.

Tom

[tunnels]

I think a lot of pressure is exerted in this area of the State, normally. We live in the densest corner of the State and opportunities are limited. Factor in the numbers of people that come here from Delaware and Jersey and it just adds to the "problem". I've never been a tournament angler because I can't get out enough to stay involved. From what I read, most tournaments take care to release fish in good shape. I think we are just in between a rock and a hard place. I've also seen guys take out stringers of bass. Not necessarily the right thing to do but still legal. We all want to enjoy our sport on "our" lake. It's getting tougher and tougher, though.

[Midnitebasser]

I saw that post and the numbers are probably pretty accurate, I don't think 252 fish is that big of a deal. I don't like to see delayed mortality but it is going to happen especially during the summer. I think way more fish are killed by regular fishermen who take them home to eat and some don't care if they are of legal size or even if the season is open. Now consider this, if all bass were released alive and there was no mortality at all what do you think would happen, what I think would happen is that the lake would become over populated and the growth rate would slow, then we might end up with a lake full of stunted fish and then everybody would be complaining that there are no big fish in the lake. We need to remove some fish to keep the lake healthy. I have talked to some guys that I know and trust and they have had some very good days this year but they don't like to post their results. JMO

[teb67gt]

I have seen other posts where people have been stating that they have not been enjoying much success (for bass) at Marsh this year. I personally have been out a few times and except for one time, have done pretty well. Definitely better than last year.

That being said, I think the lake would benefit from a reduction in the number of tournaments held in the warmer months. Not bashing the tourneys, but 4 in 10 days is definitely a lot.

[vanmc]

Everyone raised good points. One thing I did not even consider was people taking home stringers of bass. That blows my mind. When I want to cook some fish up I go fishing for pan fish.

Most of you stated that this year has been much better then last year which makes me think I may have to change up some of my summer techniques.

[BigDaveE]

This is another example of where 90% of our problems come from 10% off our fisherman. I am by no means a great fisherman & dont claim to be, but I do my best to do everything as respectful to other fisherman, the fish & to the water as I can. It does get to me when I see a bank full of fisherman with buckets full of dinks that they catch, I think most of you know exactly what I am talking about. I believe this is a major problem & more than 1/2 of theese people dont even have fishing liscences.
I know most of the time alot of us think of the wardens & rangers that may stop us to ask a few questions as someone out to make a quick buck or are out to hassel us legal fisherman, but I wish I would see more of them, and they should start walking around the lake more to stop theese people that are fishing illegally & fine them, putting the money back into the fisheries. I have seen more & more illegal fisherman this year than ever before and I think this is a major factor that is hurting the fisheries.
As far as the tourneys go , I think they should limit the Tuesday nighters to every other week & only let the clubs that sponsor or help to better the lake in some way have them there.
my 2 cents on the pressure issue.
Dave E

[tunnels]

BigDave, You're right on about the wardens & people fishing without licenses. I personally know someone who left his job & opened a Mom & Pop store because he was stabbed four times. All because he stopped a couple of people (man & woman) & asked for licenses. The woman was the first to stab him. Once again, it was the small percentage that ruinded it.

[fishncool]

vanmc
good post and I agree with you the summer tournaments are affecting the fishing. whether it be a coincidence or not the start of the tuesday niters was the start of the downfall. I took a 5 hour skunk saturday 5 AM !!! to 10. thats crazy. not even a dink. fishing is NOT better than last year and much worst than 2 years ago. it may "seem" to be better fishing this year for some people who don't get out as much as I do but the reason is simple. when a bass is in its feeding mode, in shallow and looking for something alive to consume, it will eat just about any plastic bait presented with a reasonable amount of stealth. they will eat these baits just sitting on the bottom "dead sticking" . if you have a good day it is more of just lucky timing that the bass were hitting at that time. bass can turn on all over the lake at the same time, they will hit just about any color, tube, worm, senko, jig etc. its amateur hour then. when the fishing gets really tough, that separates the men from the boys. when it tough and you have bad luck, well, its skunk time. if I had stuck it out another 5 hours I might have found a nice group of fish or maybe they would have turned on later but I have my own limits and 5 hours without one is it. it just makes one appreciate a good day when it happens. I talked to an officer over the weekend and he told me they caught some illegals with under sized fish and cited them. they somehow know where they work and will pursue the fine. on a positive note, this officer said that most of the people he talks to are catch and release fisherman

[waleye]

Any thoughts on making Marsh Creek a year around catch and release lake for bass? They do that on Prospect Park Lake in Brooklyn, making it one of the best large mouth fisheries in New York State.

[teb67gt]

I've thought that as well. I wonder though, if that would result in a lake full of stunted bass?

Fished good and hard last night for 3 hours with 1 dink to show for it....lame.

[Ol Man River]

At 68 years old I hunted this area for birds up until they closed it to fill and construct this lake. Over all the years this lake has seen ups and downs from real bad fish kills, to the traffic jams coming into the lake that used to occur on a regular schedule, to the flooding, to the arguments between fisherman and sailboaters, the druggies who use and abuse the area at night, and the A-holes who broke all the rules by trashing the area and filling there buckets and stringers with undersized fish. Now lets mention the upside. First the Marsh Creek Bass Club who has bent over backwards to make this a productive situation and all those true sportsman who go out of there way to make sure the laws are obeyed. Lets also mention Gordons Sporting goods for there lasting concern and input as the health of this lake greatly contributes to the health of there buisness and thats a good thing. Give a high 5 to the park officers also, it's a tough job and we should help them in anyway we can. It's good to hear the concerns of all, as this shows that we all really do care. We may not all agree with each other all the time, but we are striving toward the same goal. Hey, years ago this was a great area for pheasents but sadly there all gone. This is a great lake for fishing and I hope it will remain that way. Get involved, it's yours so protect it.

[tomm]

Yup, well said OMR!

Tom

[Senko De Milo]

I agree, it's good to see how many responded & how many of us care about the lake. I've written about the Tourney's before, there is no doubt MC has way too many & way too frequent.The Tourney fishermen keep pounding the same structures & weedbeds over & over which is constant pressure on the Bass. This could be a factor in a decline, as well as post release mortality, more fish die than we realize.Another factor in decline is spraying of the weeds, this jeopardizes the forage,cover & spawning areas, MC, beginning last Summer, sprayed far more areas than in years past. I used to see lots of crawfish at MC ( which is vital to the food chain), where have they gone? One more note & something to think about, Up until the 40's & 50's, in upstate New York, there were loads of Blue Pike, they were fished, both night & day for years with large numbers being harvested ( they were as good to eat as a walleye), noone ever dreamt what would happen could, by the late 60's, there was not one to be caught, they were gone, not relocated, but gone & for good. The old timers who fished them, now shake their head in disbelief & wish they could of done something at the time needed to protect something that was precious. Those famed waters are now lacking a specie of fish that are truly missed. Is Marsh Creek invincible? or could something like this happen as well. One note, those waters in New York, are part of a vast water system, whereas MC is an inland lake (miniscule in size by comparison).
Could fishing a line for hours without even a ding be a warning???

[fishncool]

I'm not sure how you conclude there are less crawfish but that would be a factor and it makes a lot of sense but the fish would adjust to a panfish diet out of survival. I believe the tourney post release mortality is a big factor but not the reason for no dinks. think about that, where are all those dinks and aggressive foolish 8 to 14.75" fish. maybe they are chasing schools of panfish already instead of craws, and in the deeper water. there was always schooling bass showing at times at the surface. they were usually 12-14" fish. I haven't seen them this year. I have tried deeper but was it at the expense of missing the shallow bite when some fish are in feeding there? not much luck but I can tell you I got dinks in 30' already this summer. one other thought, could the pressure on the remaining fish on key spots have changed the habits of the fish? and lets face it the entire shoreline would be included. the drop off in the # keepers is way too quick