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Post by mrsimon on May 16, 2015 8:32:03 GMT -5
I went to French Creek yesterday for some fly fishing with a buddy. We didn't do great, but I did catch a huge rainbow.
Turns out we stumbled into some private club water that is stocked with a bunch of giants. Now I like catching big trout as much as the next guy, but it kind of felt like cheating.
I also was sad to learn that a big portion of water is now private .... right in the middle of a stretch I've fished all my life.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 21:02:22 GMT -5
Nice vid. Strange they can make part of the river private.
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ziggy
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Post by ziggy on May 17, 2015 8:45:45 GMT -5
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Post by pokey on May 17, 2015 12:28:40 GMT -5
I would think it is considered navigable since it is part of the Pa Scenic river system. This is a very grey area. Why else wouldn't the state publish a list of what we can recreate on and what is off limits? I
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 19:40:43 GMT -5
What fly did you catch that big rainbow on?
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Post by mrsimon on May 18, 2015 8:53:03 GMT -5
I caught him on a white streamer. I was just twitching it slowly sideways across the current and the fish slammed it.
Out of respect for the club who spent a lot of money purchasing those big fish, I will stay away from their area. But it's really frustrating that when I get to their honey hole, I have to turn around and go back. I used to love to fish from bridge to bridge and walk back to my car on the road. Can't do that anymore.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 10:02:20 GMT -5
I think I know where you're talking about. One day with no stocking within a month I caught a bunch of nice fish. Must of swam down. I heard they stocked privately up there but wasn't sure if it was true.
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Post by wader105 on May 18, 2015 19:41:58 GMT -5
mrsimon - are you saying some area between the covered bridge and the grated bridge is now private? what portion exactly and is it clearly marked from the road access and from the water? how do you go around it? do you have to walk onto private property - a lot of that land on both sides of that stretch is private. sad to hear this.
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Post by mrsimon on May 19, 2015 7:48:40 GMT -5
mrsimon - are you saying some area between the covered bridge and the grated bridge is now private? what portion exactly and is it clearly marked from the road access and from the water? how do you go around it? do you have to walk onto private property - a lot of that land on both sides of that stretch is private. sad to hear this. Yup, between those two bridges. If you are just wading/fishing up the stream, you will see no signs until you get to their first dam, which has a big erosion fence across it that you can't get over. You are forced to get out on the bank, but there are posted signs everywhere. It's pretty much a dead end now. You can't fish up through it and you can't walk around it. You just have to turn around and go back. It is the landowners right to post his property and expect people to stay off it. I will respect that. What I don't like is the fishing club putting up a big fence across the stream to keep people from wading up the stream. The law is pretty gray on this. If French Creek is considered "navigable", then it's public water. If it's not considered navigable, then the landowner owns the stream as well. The only way to know for sure is for someone to take it to court and let them make a decision. Personally, since the courts haven't ruled on this, I am going to assume the creek is navigable and is considered public. Which means everyone is allowed to fish it, as long as they stay off the banks .... which is impossible now due to the fence. My personal opinion is that if you want to spend $20,000 on huge trout so you can catch them over and over whenever you want .... put them in a private pond somewhere so it doesn't screw things up for the rest of us who want to fish for normal trout.
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Post by wader105 on May 19, 2015 10:24:51 GMT -5
mrsimon - are you saying some area between the covered bridge and the grated bridge is now private? what portion exactly and is it clearly marked from the road access and from the water? how do you go around it? do you have to walk onto private property - a lot of that land on both sides of that stretch is private. sad to hear this. Yup, between those two bridges. If you are just wading/fishing up the stream, you will see no signs until you get to their first dam, which has a big erosion fence across it that you can't get over. You are forced to get out on the bank, but there are posted signs everywhere. It's pretty much a dead end now. You can't fish up through it and you can't walk around it. You just have to turn around and go back. It is the landowners right to post his property and expect people to stay off it. I will respect that. What I don't like is the fishing club putting up a big fence across the stream to keep people from wading up the stream. The law is pretty gray on this. If French Creek is considered "navigable", then it's public water. If it's not considered navigable, then the landowner owns the stream as well. The only way to know for sure is for someone to take it to court and let them make a decision. Personally, since the courts haven't ruled on this, I am going to assume the creek is navigable and is considered public. Which means everyone is allowed to fish it, as long as they stay off the banks .... which is impossible now due to the fence. My personal opinion is that if you want to spend $20,000 on huge trout so you can catch them over and over whenever you want .... put them in a private pond somewhere so it doesn't screw things up for the rest of us who want to fish for normal trout. wow!!! this is my first experience hearing about privatized water in this area and my first impression is anger and sadness. first and foremost, i want to thank you for alerting us to this situation and for responding so quickly and with excellent info - tight lines, brother!! i've heard of privatization farther north and west where there is more water and less pressure and the land owners actually perform conservation and provide guide services - all that i get/understand and am fine with. but down here in the southeast where there are few really good streams and tons of pressure means one less place for me to fish = anger. this stretch from bridge to bridge is truly one of the sweetest areas to fish, both in quality fish, stream presentation, and overall gorgeous scenery = sad. that said, from what you described, this area amounts to shooting fish in a barrel and no real expertise or challenge. for me, it's esthetics first, challenge second, and knowing it was a fair battle between me and the fish. if this is what makes those privateers happy and if it's what they call "fishing", then i want no part of it. let them think they're really are fishing instead of "shopping". mrsimon - thanks again for the heads up. anyone else out there have an opinion on this???
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Post by mrsimon on May 19, 2015 15:43:12 GMT -5
It's the trout fishing equivalent of watching porn ... everything is fake and it makes you less appreciative of the real thing.
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Post by unionjack16 on May 21, 2015 21:14:59 GMT -5
Too much private water and "club" fishing areas in PA. I am lucky enough to have grown up in a family that went into the wilds and learned to fish. Catching a trout in difficult circumstances is one of the biggest thrills for me, it's a challenge and so rewarding. Some ppl want the corporate treatment or guaranteed experience of catching fish. Which is fine, but don't pretend to be sportsmen. If you think you can hang, go to Penns Creek, see what your made of...
Private land and fishing clubs have always bothered me. I try to consider that not everyone is as serious a fisherman as I and maybe they want the catch without the fishing. To each his own...
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Post by hawghunters on Jun 6, 2015 20:28:21 GMT -5
I would guess that French Creek would be considered non navigable. When I first started wading in the Conestoga River around my house I got grief from local land owners. I emailed PA fish and boat and after several emails without getting replies they said that the Conestoga is non navigable and therefore they in a sense "own" that portion of waterway. It is very much so a gray area and unfortunate. I do not know of French Creek very well, but I believe it would be similar designation as the Conestoga. If you want to, I'd email PA fish and boat.
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Post by mrsimon on Jun 8, 2015 8:59:28 GMT -5
I would guess that French Creek would be considered non navigable. When I first started wading in the Conestoga River around my house I got grief from local land owners. I emailed PA fish and boat and after several emails without getting replies they said that the Conestoga is non navigable and therefore they in a sense "own" that portion of waterway. It is very much so a gray area and unfortunate. I do not know of French Creek very well, but I believe it would be similar designation as the Conestoga. If you want to, I'd email PA fish and boat. I'm surprised they told you that, considering they don't actually have the authority to make that decision. They are more than likely correct that the Conestoga River would be considered non-navigable by the courts, but since the courts haven't ruled on that particular body of water, it is an unknown. The same goes for French Creek ... I'd imagine the courts would consider it non-navigable, but it's never come up. Although, since these rules were made well over a hundred years ago, who knows. The definition of navigable is "susceptible of being used for commerce". Maybe we should argue that a fur trapper could take his furs down the creek in a canoe and sell them at the market. That would make French Creek navigable and public.
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