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Post by teb67gt on Jan 14, 2020 20:57:55 GMT -5
I would tell any person that asked me where i caught a fish. I love catching fish and i love seeing others do the same. So giving up your "hot spot" that you have researched is BS to me. There are guides on every lake and river. Whether its a catfishing guide, carp, bass, musky etc....some people dont have 10,000 casts in them. Some people can only go out when they can (ie 5 times a year). So "putting in time" does not work for everyone. I am a catch and release guy....i release my fish so others can feel the enjoyment i did when i caught that fish. Everyone has the right to thier own opinion but if my 72 year old father wants to pay a guide to "guide" him to catching a flat head catfish, shark or musky then he should. Any "guide" i have ever used was a better conservationist (i think that is a word) then most fisherman i have seen. Also more respectful.... Well put my man! Don't get me wrong, at my age I get more out of helping others learn how to fish than I do about catching them myself. I have helped and shown countless people, especially kids of friends, how and where to catch fish over the past 10 years or so. I am 100% about paying it forward and have done so more times than I can remember at this point. That said, there is a huge difference between showing someone the "ropes" and paying someone to basically catch the fish for you. I have used guides a few times in NY, Canada and Alaska as well as salthingyer for tuna, etc so I understand but there is a difference between those venues and a tiny ass lake in SEPA with a non self sustaining musky population that can easily be exploited. I too am C&R 100% (except for salmon and tuna) and am always willing to help. That said I earn my fish and will not give up my hot spots. Sorry, but when you do that and go fishing one day and see your honey holes blown up by people fishing it every time maybe then you will understand. Has happened to me countless times.
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Post by mrsimon on Jan 17, 2020 11:01:19 GMT -5
I'm a capitalist, so I'm all for someone setting up a business to provide a service. I think this is great and wish the best to these folks! If they work hard and do right by their clients I'm sure they can be successful.
I've personally seen this couple catch a number of really big fish. They know their business.
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Respect the resource.
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Post by Respect the resource. on Jan 20, 2020 11:57:24 GMT -5
I'm a capitalist, so I'm all for someone setting up a business to provide a service. I think this is great and wish the best to these folks! If they work hard and do right by their clients I'm sure they can be successful. I've personally seen this couple catch a number of really big fish. They know their business. If they get the proper documentation, it's their right. Clearly this is not a requirement, but it'd probably set some minds at ease to see them and others be respectful of preserving the resource, and even contributing back. A lot of people donated their time and tens of thousands of dollars over the past decade to get AT BEST 600 30" muskies in that lake, that this couple is now looking to profit off of. A lot of those same people that donated their time and money could just as easily try to profit off this as well but choose not to because they see the risk. It's this couples' right, but realize how quickly this fishery could be ruined if not properly respected.
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Post by Carl on Jan 20, 2020 19:56:43 GMT -5
MI50 has not stocked MC with Pures since 2016. The only recent stockings since then has been of Tigers (infertile) by the state and not too many of them either. It looks like MI50 saw the writing on the wall and walked away, which is a shame but understandable. As a former member and one who was involved in both the stockings and rescues of muskies years ago I have to say this is a horribly conceived and selfish idea. There is NO natural reproduction taking place on this lake. Zero. Tigers are hybrids so cannot reproduce. In a few years the few remaining pures will be gone, especially if they are caught in warmer water and mishandled. I saw pics of muskies being held by their jaw, vertically...not cradled. This is not the way to handle a large musky and can easily be fatal as their spines are not designed to handle their weight being held that way. Proper handling involves cradling the fish or, better yet, sliding into a folding net boatside and not removing them from the water at all. This fishery is on it's way to becoming a memory. Any guide service, especially one capitalizing on the efforts of others and improperly handling these fish, will only hasten the end of musky fishing in this little lake. Even if this winds up being allowed that does not mean raping a limited resource is ethical.
From the MI50 website:
Year Marsh Creek 2006 650 2007 700 2008 0 2009 550 2010 225 2011 0 2012 (258) 2013 (300) 2014 400 2015 0 2016 700 2017 - - - - - - - - - -
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Post by mrsimon on Jan 21, 2020 11:01:38 GMT -5
I see words being thrown around like "respect, ethical, selfish, capitalizing on the efforts of others etc etc etc".
I laugh when I hear those words being used about fish. I agree that some dedicated people worked very hard to create a good population of muskie in Marsh Creek. They did it for one, and only one, reason. To catch them. There is no other reason to put them there. But hey, they chose to put them in a public lake. Fish got big, word got out, pressure is through the roof. Seriously, what did they think would happen?
So now people are complaining because why? Because people are catching fish? .... because people want to help others catch fish too? .... because not everyone holds a fish exactly perfectly every single time?
Listen, if you want to create a perfect little muskie community where everyone follows your version of the "muskie rules", then don't do it on a public lake where normal everyday people go fishing. And if you do put those fish in a public lake, then keep your mouth shut when folks start catching them and having fun. Isn't that the point after all?
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respect the resource
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Post by respect the resource on Jan 21, 2020 11:53:57 GMT -5
mrsimon.
You're correct to an extent. The trout that TI puts into local rivers will be killed and mishandled by anglers. It's an inconvenient inevitability that anyone like MI50 or TI understands, or at least should.
It's a little different when someone is profiting off the donated time and money of others. I'm not going to sugar coat it, this couple is targeting muskies mid-summer and doing a number of other things that otherwise reduce the likelihood that the muskies swim away and live. Club members created this source for all to enjoy, so when they see it being hurt by others especially others profiting and not contributing back, in my opinion that's a distinction that justifies some frustration.
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Post by Soof on Jan 21, 2020 15:50:36 GMT -5
I see words being thrown around like "respect, ethical, selfish, capitalizing on the efforts of others etc etc etc". I laugh when I hear those words being used about fish. I agree that some dedicated people worked very hard to create a good population of muskie in Marsh Creek. They did it for one, and only one, reason. To catch them. There is no other reason to put them there. But hey, they chose to put them in a public lake. Fish got big, word got out, pressure is through the roof. Seriously, what did they think would happen? So now people are complaining because why? Because people are catching fish? .... because people want to help others catch fish too? .... because not everyone holds a fish exactly perfectly every single time? Listen, if you want to create a perfect little muskie community where everyone follows your version of the "muskie rules", then don't do it on a public lake where normal everyday people go fishing. And if you do put those fish in a public lake, then keep your mouth shut when folks start catching them and having fun. Isn't that the point after all?
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Post by Soof on Jan 21, 2020 16:10:19 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has an issue with people musky fishing. You are correct in that is why the fish are in there in the first place. I think the issue is both with the additional strain a guide service would have on the small population on a small lake and also people coming in out of nowhere and deciding to profit from the efforts of many volunteers over the years who helped create the fishery. I am sure the stocking took place to encourage others to fish for them and to encourage others to try it out. I don't think the spirit behind what seems to be about a decade's worth of time, money and effort was so that someone could swoop in and profit from it. That is not capitalism, which requires some degree of investment in the process. That is exploitation.
Though MC has had big LMB in it for years, probably targeted more than muskies, I have never been aware of a "for profit" guide ever being on the lake nor have I ever seen flyers/ads for such anywhere for MC. You would think that Gordon's would have some flyers up at their store if that were the case.
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Post by Soof on Jan 21, 2020 19:43:13 GMT -5
So, that makes it right to do that? Were the fins red? The day may have been warm but the water temp is what matters. Did the pic in show water temperature? I am not a member but know that using too light equipment (playing them to exhaustion) especially in warmer temps is quite fatal to them.
I will make it easy for you. If the fins are red they are dead. Even if they swim away the red fins indicate busted blood vessels from a prolonged fight. Combine that with warm (+75 degree) water and you have a guaranteed floater.
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Post by Soof on Jan 21, 2020 20:19:48 GMT -5
I see words being thrown around like "respect, ethical, selfish, capitalizing on the efforts of others etc etc etc". I laugh when I hear those words being used about fish. I agree that some dedicated people worked very hard to create a good population of muskie in Marsh Creek. They did it for one, and only one, reason. To catch them. There is no other reason to put them there. But hey, they chose to put them in a public lake. Fish got big, word got out, pressure is through the roof. Seriously, what did they think would happen? So now people are complaining because why? Because people are catching fish? .... because people want to help others catch fish too? .... because not everyone holds a fish exactly perfectly every single time? Listen, if you want to create a perfect little muskie community where everyone follows your version of the "muskie rules", then don't do it on a public lake where normal everyday people go fishing. And if you do put those fish in a public lake, then keep your mouth shut when folks start catching them and having fun. Isn't that the point after all? They sure as F didn't put all that work in to make a decent fishery so that some tool can come in from out of nowhere to blow it up and line his pockets in the process. If you don't see the big picture then you are part of the problem. Prove me wrong.
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respect the resource
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Post by respect the resource on Jan 22, 2020 9:38:00 GMT -5
jmmpitt83
You could be correct, frankly I haven't looked at the website. Truth be told, I'm not proud of how I've handled some muskies I've caught. It happens, but you can also optimize circumstances.
As someone else said this couple is basically exploiting a resource that (to my knowledge) they have not contributed to. By their own admission they've caught a lot of their muskies in July/August in water temps they reported at 82-84F. If you're going to make money off something you didn't contribute to or create, it shouldn't come as a surprise you're going to bring a lot more scrutiny and attention to yourself.
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respect the resource
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Post by respect the resource on Jan 22, 2020 10:25:10 GMT -5
I don't mean to be obnoxious or condescending, but just a little more background on muskies in the area...
In SE PA there are a couple of rivers and maybe a half dozen lakes that hold muskies. Generally you aim for (at most) one 30" musky / acre, so in all of SE PA there might be a few thousand muskies, give or take. I'm not a biologist, but I'd think in a lot of the creeks and lakes in the area you could find that many bass or trout and obviously there are appreciably more trout/bass lakes and rivers than musky opportunities.
On top of that, just one musky costs in the ballpark of $15 to stock. They're stocked at about 12" so they're susceptible to predation early on from herons, bass, etc. for a few years. It takes roughly four years for them just to get to 30" and considering a lot of those stocked may not make it to 30" that's a lot of time/money/effort for just a few to make it.
Again, not trying to be condescending, I get how the other side of the coin may look. However, hopefully this gives a little more perspective why some are really passionate about this.
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Post by Soof on Jan 22, 2020 17:05:14 GMT -5
So, that makes it right to do that? Were the fins red? The day may have been warm but the water temp is what matters. Did the pic in show water temperature? I am not a member but know that using too light equipment (playing them to exhaustion) especially in warmer temps is quite fatal to them. I will make it easy for you. If the fins are red they are dead. Even if they swim away the red fins indicate busted blood vessels from a prolonged fight. Combine that with warm (+75 degree) water and you have a guaranteed floater. No - not at all. I was not pointing that picture out to say that is the proper way to hold a fish. In fact - I have no idea what I am talking about. I have never caught a musky or even tried to - just interested. I just found it funny that all these members of the club are hating on this dude and saying this and that about him not caring about the fish, etc. Then I go to the web site and what do I see? The same damn thing they are talking about. Holding the musky out of water, hurting the spine, hot day, etc. I have no idea how warm the temp. was that day, etc. It just seems like they want to protect what they started which I totally understand - but its Marsh Creek!!?! Even since the boom of town houses, etc. in Exton that place is super crowded and it will continue to get worse. I do not even go up there anymore because of that reason - way too many people. I completely agree with you on the crowding thing. I know, it is life (I won't use the word "progress"). Things change and we all have to deal, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I rarely fish there anymore and NEVER on weekends. When I do go these days it is almost always during lousy weather. Might hurt the fishing (or not, sometimes) but it is nice to be able to work a stretch without a bunch of boats or kayaks on top of you. I get it, population density and all that, but I miss the "old" days a bit when it was a less crowded.
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Post by Soof on Jan 22, 2020 17:16:08 GMT -5
jmmpitt83 You could be correct, frankly I haven't looked at the website. Truth be told, I'm not proud of how I've handled some muskies I've caught. It happens, but you can also optimize circumstances. As someone else said this couple is basically exploiting a resource that (to my knowledge) they have not contributed to. By their own admission they've caught a lot of their muskies in July/August in water temps they reported at 82-84F. If you're going to make money off something you didn't contribute to or create, it shouldn't come as a surprise you're going to bring a lot more scrutiny and attention to yourself. I am starting to understand why a lot are upset. Totally get it. It sucks because I love fishing when its really hot like that but I probably will not target a musky during that time. The last thing I would want is to see it floating dead after a release. That has happened to me a few times even with trout (and proper handling) and it is sad (to me at least). This is good dialogue and how everyone (vets or newbies alike) learn. Nobody has all the right answers...certainly not me, as my wife would attest. With that said I will just add this. Musky fishing is much better in the early Spring (pretty much right after ice out, if there is ice that is). On an average year I would start in early March and fish until early April, which is when they will attempt to spawn and pretty much a waste of time trying. Post spawn can be very good as well since they will be hungry from their lack of feeding. Say mid May until early/mid June. Mid Summer is tough, not just on the fish but also for the catching anyway. There is tons of food available for them and your lure(s) will be competing with the abundance of bait around. Once the heat dies down, say late September or so, until it gets really cold is my favorite time. Honestly though you could probably catch one now...they are a coolwater fish. Just would need to slow things down, until you have a follow at least. I haven't fished for them elsewhere but they are in the Susky (I have seen them caught there), Schuylkill, and Delaware rivers - especially above the bridgle in Trenton and northward. Hope this helps.
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Post by thehammer0711 on Jan 22, 2020 19:28:16 GMT -5
Sorry if its legal then have at it. I see tons of pics on facebook of people lining up 20+ catfish....and while i dont agree with that...if its legal then do what you want.
If this guy gets whatever kind of license he needs to do this, then someone over my pay grade deemed it ok or legal to do it....then have at it.
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