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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 9:44:19 GMT -5
Is the brandywine a navigable river? What I’m really wondering is do land owners own the river too or just the land? do I need to ask ask permission from the landowners if I fish/kayak through?
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Post by icemole on Dec 23, 2017 17:15:04 GMT -5
There are only a few official "navigable rivers" in PA - they are the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill, Susky(both branches + main stem), Juniata, Little Juniata, Allegheny, Monongalia and the Ohio. Every other river/stream or creek in Pa is considered owned by the landowner. If two different landowners own opposite sides then the mid point of the waterway is the boundry.
Now here is the tricky part... the water in any stream is owned by the state so you can float down any waterway in the state and the landowner can not do anything.... UNLESS you put your foot on the streambed or bank. Now you are only allowed to access the stream from a PUBLIC area or private property that allows public use. Bridges, roads or utility right of ways are NOT public use areas
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2017 17:33:59 GMT -5
Ok thanks. The real reason I asked was for doing a float to shoot ducks.
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Post by icemole on Dec 24, 2017 6:34:19 GMT -5
Even on "official" navigable rivers technically you still need permission to retrieve birds that fall on the shore.
To get any other river/stream classified as a "navigable" water you need to get charged with trespassing then fight it out in court. If you can prove that historically said water was used for commercial purposes then you have a good chance of winning(which is how the Lehigh + Little Juniata got added). Of course that costs money and time.
P.S. You can float the Schuylkill.... BUT I don't think you are allowed to hunt within Valley Forge Park. And of course you need to abide by any other Safety Zones.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2017 7:00:13 GMT -5
Yeah setting the precedent in navigable rivers is not for me. Ha. Thanks for the info.
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Post by fishingpaul on Dec 24, 2017 9:52:24 GMT -5
Ok thanks. The real reason I asked was for doing a float to shoot ducks. I have been researching this myself for the same reason. Are you looking at before or after the branches come together? I have fished most of the W and E branches from their start to where they merge. The branches are very accessible for fishing, not sure about hunting. |
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Post by icemole on Dec 24, 2017 10:42:15 GMT -5
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Post by fishingpaul on Dec 24, 2017 14:14:45 GMT -5
It's unfortunate how complicated this issue has become.
I guess there is no way to simplify property rights and public water access. Every scenario is different.
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Post by icemole on Dec 25, 2017 7:51:12 GMT -5
It has not gotten worse ... BUT there is a lot of "misinformation" out there. A lot of the canoe/kayak clubs will say you can float anywhere(which is true) but they will not add the part about only if you can gain "public access". Many People think that bridges/utilities and roads are "public" - they are not they are "right of ways". My property deed states that I "own" to the middle of the township road yet I can't set up a toll booth. There is/was a list on the DNRC site listing all "navigable waterways" in the State - except there is a disclaimer that states this list is only for reference and not legally binding(or something like that). Nobody reads that part of the list until you point it out to them. There is also an old list from Penn Dot but that has to do with constructing bridges not whether you can float a canoe. And there is the old standby misconception that as long as I'm in the water I'm OK. I've even had guys tell me the creek is not posted just the land - I guess you need a sign in the creek ? There is only 1 small line in the fishing regs.(not sure it's still in the book) that states that many waters are private and you should ask permission you can find it at the bottom of this page... www.fishandboat.com/Fish/PennsylvaniaFishes/Trout/Pages/TrouthingyerClassifications.aspx Asking Permission has been drilled into us by the PGC since I took the Hunter Safety Course in the early 70's... but it seems like the PFBC is not too concerned about it ! Maybe they're afraid landowners will tell them to go pound sand when they ask if the can stock(although many do). There are many cases that State could declare waterway "X" as a navigable waterway but they won't do so until "Joe Citizen" wins or looks like he is going to win his "trespassing case". Here in Berks/Lebanon/Dauphin we have the Tulpehoken Creek that was historically used to transport goods from eastern Pa to Central Pa. through the use of canals(just like the Lehigh+ Skuke) There are books, museums, historical markers, old newpaper accounts all documenting the history.... yet the State will not simply say - yep it's a navigable river ! OK time to open my presents .... Merry Christmas ... LOL |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 12:22:28 GMT -5
Lot of people have no idea what a right of way is. I’ve heard hunters tell me they can hunt along train tracks because of right of way. Thank god for smart phone and google. Now I just instantly prove people wrong. Actually had this discussion yesterday. Guy wanted me to hunt a spot I knew was illegal. Pulled it up with the land owners name and texted it to him. There’s some cool apps out there.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 12:25:28 GMT -5
Ok thanks. The real reason I asked was for doing a float to shoot ducks. I have been researching this myself for the same reason. Are you looking at before or after the branches come together? I have fished most of the W and E branches from their start to where they merge. The branches are very accessible for fishing, not sure about hunting. I hadn’t really decided yet. I was actually leaning towards conestoga river since it’s so close to me but we do have a spot in West Chester we can legally launch. Land owner. I was going to do it Saturday but now there’s ice all over the smaller rivers so it’s a no go. I’m really going to do my homework this year and do it next season. Do some warm weather fishing trips to see what will be good and safe. |
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chip
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Post by chip on Jan 14, 2018 13:08:43 GMT -5
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Post by icemole on Jan 18, 2018 15:06:59 GMT -5
It doesn't.... Read the note on page 6
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